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Sunktokeca
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| RIP Florence Green - Submitted: Feb 09, 2012 01:46 AM
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#1 |
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RudyBear800
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| RIP Florence Green - Submitted: Feb 09, 2012 02:50 PM
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#2 |
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Original Post by Sunktokeca
Florence Green, the last veteran of World War One, has passed away. Florence enlisted in the Women's Royal Air Force at age 17 in September, 1918.
With the passing of Florence Green a page has turned in the history of our world. Please take a moment to remember Florence and the millions of others who served in the War to End All Wars.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/9066371/Last-surviving-veteran-of-First-World-War-dies-aged-110.html
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Sun, tens of millions killed in a war that should not have happened, and ended in way that planted the seeds of the second world war.
I visited several of the battle fields and forts in France. My mother was born near Verdun. Many memorial sites have thousands of bones and skulls in piles of unknown solders. Some of the battle fields are still filled with unexploded artillery shells. There is one site I will never forget and I have pictures of it. There is a covered area with around 30 rifle bayonets sticking out of the ground. They were French preparing to leave the trench for an attack. They were all buried alive standing up by an artillery shell filling their trench with dirt. They are there today standing holding their rifles buried alive like the day they were all killed. I saw this at Fort Douaumont Verdun France.
I also visited the concentration camp in Dachau Germany. Not an easy place to find near Munich Germany, the local population don't like to talk about it. Found in the German Alps, some of the most beautiful areas of the world and such a horrible crime. My last stop was Hitler's Eagles Nest on top of a mountain in Berchtesgaden on the German, Austrian border. The area and scenes were in one of the final episodes of the HBO series, "Band of Brothers".
Seeing those things and being there gives you a different perspective of war.
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Sunktokeca
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| RIP Florence Green - Submitted: Feb 09, 2012 07:13 PM
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#3 |
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it is impossible to understand the world as it is today without an understanding of World War 1.
The war brought about the Russian Revolution, Arab nationalism, the Irish revolution, severe economic collapse throughout Europe which eventually made it possible for Mussolini and Hitler to rise to power and triggered the collapse of the British Empire; and countless other changes throughout the world.
My ancestors and other relatives fought and died fighting for Germany, Canada, France, USA, and a free Ireland.
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RudyBear800
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| RIP Florence Green - Submitted: Feb 10, 2012 02:36 PM
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#4 |
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Sun, now that I'm retired, I no longer do my cross country trips to American Indian Conferences, all held on a Rez, and in gambling casinos.  Too bad, those were the best moments of my career, and I might have tried to look you up. I think we would have had some very interesting conversations. Who knows, we may have met, there were only a hand full white men attending. I was the middle age good looking white guy with a short beard who hung out with the women of the New York State American Indian Tribes. 
I attended all of the opening ceremonies and Pow Wows'. The drumming, singing, and dancing of the tribes in their tribal regalia is something I will never forget.
Where am I going with this? The subject of War which I don't think the Western White culture will ever understand. It took a while for me to get it, but because I am an Army Veteran, I was considered a "Warrior". Talking with the different tribal members across the country, the subject of their wars, with the white men and religious missionaries, be it English, French, Spanish or Americans was like it happened yesterday. It was ethnic cleansing or genocide (still is in some ways) on a grand scale.
I took serious being called a "Warrior" on two occasions: While in Arizona the Apaches sponsored a Pow Wow. During one of the ceremonial dances the women from the New York State tribes dragged me into one dance with the tribes. It was a WTF moment, the only white guy in street cloths with all these proud tribes in their regalia. I was told because I'm a "Warrior" that was the only dance a White Man was allowed to dance in "Warrior dance". I probably looked like a fool, but tried my best. I knew that refusing, like refusing an invitation to eat would be an insult. Jesus, I eat a lot on the Rez, using the excuse of being diabetic didn't work because most feeding me were diabetic.
On another occasion during the opening ceremony of a conference, I was asked to represent and carry the flag for one of the New York State tribes. Another WTF moment...the women of the tribe told me only male "Warriors" carry the flag and represent their tribe (not the same for all tribes). They told me I was a "Warrior" and one of them. I hate to admit it but I got a little teary eyed.
Sun, I thought you might find this interesting, the rest around here probably don't have a clue as to what I'm talking about...nothing new there  
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| RIP Florence Green - Submitted: Feb 10, 2012 03:31 PM
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#5 |
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At the pow wows I would be the old guy in a cowboy hat eating fry bread and talking to the Indian chicks.
The plains tribes also take being a Warrior very seriously. Indian or White, it does not matter. A Warrior is a Warrior. A pow wow grand opening is always lead by the American Legion members carrying the Stars and Stripes.
One of the interesting tid bits of American History is that during the plains Indian Wars there was not a lot of personal animosity between the Indians and Regular US Army (the state militias were something entirely different in that respect). Professional Warriors respected each other as Warriors even though they fought each other. There were occasions of atrocity committed by both sides but they were the exception rather than the rule. And quite often the US Army's most effective Indian fighters were among the Indian's strongest advocates. Even Custer, the man who everyone loves to hate, expressed admiration of the Indians as a people and as warriors.
It is also interesting to remember that most tribes allied themselves with the USA and fought with the Army rather than against it. The closest thing that the Army had to "Special Forces" in those days were the Indian Scouts. Companies and sometimes even battalions of Pawnee, Crow, Arikara, Shoshoni, and many others were very effective when utilized by Army officers smart enough to deploy them. Even the Delaware Scouts went half way across the continent to fight. They were Warriors in search of a war.
Some more trivia. Desertion was a major problem in the 19th Century US Army. In some regiments it reached 25%. Some of the wiser post commanders on the Upper Missouri forts found a way to solve that problem. Instead of sending an NCO and a few troopers to chase deserters, they sent the Arikara and Crow Scouts to bring them back, dead or alive. Those posts had very few deserters.
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RudyBear800
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| RIP Florence Green - Submitted: Feb 10, 2012 04:18 PM
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#6 |
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"At the pow wows I would be the old guy in a cowboy hat eating fry bread and talking to the Indian chicks".
Great clue Yeah, you and a couple of hundred others.
Have you read much about the Tribes in the North East? There is still much hatred, I believe because there is a longer history with the European settlers. Before the Gambling casinos, the poverty and problems associated with it on the Rez, was unbelievable. Much worse than the inner city poverty and problems I understood. Reservations with no public transportation, reservation cars that were wrecks and would get you arrested off the Reservation. Families living in trailers...the joke on Rez was you could tell if the trailer was paid for if it didn't have the wheels attached. I got close to the New York Tribes, but still had to be careful with what I said and how I behaved. I studied hard about the cultures of the different tribes before I was invited on the first Reservation. Every now and then one of the elders would refer to me as the "White Trader". Do you get the double meaning? That has a very clear meaning amongst the Northeastern tribes.
It took longer for the Americans to move out West, it was and still is less densely populated. In the beginning the Americans were more interested in killing the Spanish, and in some cases the English off the West coast.
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RudyBear800
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| RIP Florence Green - Submitted: Feb 10, 2012 05:52 PM
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#7 |
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The Buffalo Soldiers, there is so much history to this great country.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMUQMSXLlHM
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turbo3052002
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| RIP Florence Green - Submitted: Feb 10, 2012 06:07 PM
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#8 |
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Sunktokeca
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| RIP Florence Green - Submitted: Feb 10, 2012 08:33 PM
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#9 |
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Original Post by RudyBear800
Have you read much about the Tribes in the North East? There is still much hatred, I believe because there is a longer history with the European settlers.
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My French ancestors arrived in Acadia in 1620. When the British attempted to remove all of the French settlers from Acadia, my ancestors fought back and took the ship (Pembroke) from the English crew and sailed it back to Acadia. They then fell back into the woods and lived with the Mi'kmaqs. They intermarried with the Mi'kmaqs and with them conducted guerrilla attacks against the Brits and their Iroquois allies throughout the French and Indian War (AKA The Seven Years War and should be known as the REAL first world war). After the war some stayed with the Mi'kmaqs and the rest headed west to Quebec.
In general the French settlers in North America got along much more peacefully with the Indians than the other Europeans. The only ones they ever went to war against were those tribes allied with the British.
As you are probably aware, but most people are not, the greatest violence between Indians and what would become the United States took place long before the conquest of the Great Plains. When people think of Indian wars they think of Custer, the cavalry, and little else. However the real horrors and unimaginable violence took place east of the Mississippi many years before the west was settled. Both Indian and White conducted massacres and generalized mayhem that make the battle at the Little Big Horn seem like a Sunday in the park.
But anyway, back to World War One. People today are aware of the Navajo Code Talkers utilized by the Marines in WW2. Few are aware that the first code talkers were used during WW1.
http://www.milpages.com/blog/1536
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RudyBear800
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| RIP Florence Green - Submitted: Feb 10, 2012 10:39 PM
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#10 |
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Yes Sun, I know the history and agree with all you have said.
I'm sure you are aware that the Iroquois Confederacy was the first Democratic government of the western world, including the Americas and Europe.
Nice to know there are other students of history around here, and I don't mean the history of the Porn Industry. 
Edit to add: One of my French relatives a great-great something was in Mexico during the Franco-Mexican War, I have his medals. One with Napoleon on a bronze medallion. Not many know that France went to war with Mexico in 1862.
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RudyBear800
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| RIP Florence Green - Submitted: Feb 11, 2012 12:35 AM
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#11 |
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Sun, come to think of it, the French and British have always stuck their noses in our business.
Want to talk about our Civil War? It was no secret the British and French supported the South. If not for the issue of slavery the British probably would have entered the war as allies of the South.
They would have lost again.
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| RIP Florence Green - Submitted: Feb 11, 2012 01:13 AM
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#12 |
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Original Post by RudyBear800
Edit to add: One of my French relatives a great-great something was in Mexico during the Franco-Mexican War, I have his medals. One with Napoleon on a bronze medallion. Not many know that France went to war with Mexico in 1862.
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And the end result, 150 years later Americans think Corona is beer!
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| RIP Florence Green - Submitted: Feb 11, 2012 01:54 AM
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#13 |
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Original Post by RudyBear800
Sun, come to think of it, the French and British have always stuck their noses in our business.
Want to talk about our Civil War? It was no secret the British and French supported the South. If not for the issue of slavery the British probably would have entered the war as allies of the South.
They would have lost again.
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I do not think there was any direct involvement by the British government, but they did allow the Lincoln assassination conspirators to operate freely in Montreal. However in other aspects they did assist numerous Confederate agents operating in "British North America," even to the extent of allowing the Confederates to assemble a paramilitary unit which attempted to invade the USA from the north (they didn't get very far). Given the great aid that the British gave the CSA, I am surprised that the US Army worked so hard to stop the Fenian raids immediately after the war.
On the southern border France had it's eyes set on Texas and Louisiana. I think that had they been able to hold Mexico they probably would have would have made moves against the USA.
And then 50 years later it was Germany using Mexico as a base of operations for it's network of spies and saboteurs operating in the USA during WW1. I just finished reading The Detonators, a rather dry but nonetheless interesting account of the Black Tom explosion in New Jersey and numerous lesser acts of sabotage across the USA.
And they even attempted to entice Mexico into invading the USA from the south. That became Germany's undoing, and led to the US entry into the war. Had they not pulled that stunt the USA probably would have sat out the war. Without fresh US troops entering the war in Europe it would have likely ended in a draw, or just maybe a German victory. The Zimmerman Telegram by Barbara Tuchman is a very fascinating read which describes those events.
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RudyBear800
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| RIP Florence Green - Submitted: Feb 11, 2012 01:59 AM
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#14 |
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Original Post by Sunktokeca
And the end result, 150 years later Americans think Corona is beer!
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Which originally was produced in Puerto Rico
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RudyBear800
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| RIP Florence Green - Submitted: Feb 11, 2012 02:28 AM
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#15 |
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Original Post by Sunktokeca
I do not think there was any direct involvement by the British government, but they did allow the Lincoln assassination conspirators to operate freely in Montreal. However in other aspects they did assist numerous Confederate agents operating in "British North America," even to the extent of allowing the Confederates to assemble a paramilitary unit which attempted to invade the USA from the north (they didn't get very far). Given the great aid that the British gave the CSA, I am surprised that the US Army worked so hard to stop the Fenian raids immediately after the war.
On the southern border France had it's eyes set on Texas and Louisiana. I think that had they been able to hold Mexico they probably would have would have made moves against the USA.
And then 50 years later it was Germany using Mexico as a base of operations for it's network of spies and saboteurs operating in the USA during WW1. I just finished reading The Detonators, a rather dry but nonetheless interesting account of the Black Tom explosion in New Jersey and numerous lesser acts of sabotage across the USA.
And they even attempted to entice Mexico into invading the USA from the south. That became Germany's undoing, and led to the US entry into the war. Had they not pulled that stunt the USA probably would have sat out the war. Without fresh US troops entering the war in Europe it would have likely ended in a draw, or just maybe a German victory. The Zimmerman Telegram by Barbara Tuchman is a very fascinating read which describes those events.
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As I said, we would have interesting conversations.
The British built warships for the Southern Confederacy. However, many were confiscated by the Russian Navy, which was the only European country to openly support the Northern Union. In fact for a time the Russian Navy dock ships in New York harbors. There were American Naval Officers spoiling for a fight with British, and did board some ships and took prisoners.
Abraham Lincoln was pissed at the French for invading Mexico, but his hands were tied with the on going Civil War. Soon after the ending of the Civil War, the Northern Union sent 50,000 troops to the Texas Mexican border. However, the French were on their way out of Mexico.
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